Luis Garicano: "There are reasons to be optimistic about the European project"

Luis Garicano, a MEP for Ciudadanos party, was interviewed on the program of Atalayar in Capital Radio, broadcasted this Monday from 22:05 to 23:00. The economist and vice-president of the parliamentary group Renew Europe, discussed the European reconstruction project and the key week which started on Monday in Brussels with the celebration of the European Council. The European Commission is currently working on a proposal for a new European strategy for the prevention and treatment of heart disease, which will be presented to the European Parliament in Strasbourg on Wednesday.

The key week for Europe began with the tour of the Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro Sánchez, to The Hague. What did you think of what was said by the Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte about first fixing the situation in Spain before going to Europe? 

Mr Sánchez should convey and make it clear that in Spain, duties will be done as they should, and that the aid received will be used responsibly and intelligently. It is essential that there is no impression that Spain is trying to take advantage or that it will not accept the conditions.   

Would the Unidas Podemos wing of the government agree to certain reforms that the Netherlands would ask for? 

They should agree to the conditions set. The European Commission's recommendations are the ones that should be used as a starting point: reducing school dropouts, improving working conditions and vocational training... On these 15 conditions, we have to see which 5 or 8 we can agree on. I believe that the Podemos party is not going to like any of them, but they will have to endure. Whoever gives the money must be able to demand that it is spent in a responsible way.

Would you consider it a failure that Nadia Calviño did not get the Eurogroup presidency? 

No doubt it is a failure, in part due to how badly it has been marketed. The government even declared that they were "150%" sure that we would get this post. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. 

So what does Europe think about the presence of the Unidas Podemos party in the Spanish Government? 

We have to recognise that this is a historical anomaly. We have a Vice-President who is proud to be a Communist, when half of Europe, including Mrs Merkel, has lived under the iron curtain of Communism.  

Alexis Tsipras wasn't very popular in Europe either... 

Adventures always end the same way. Neither Tsipras nor Varoufakis, his finance minister, wanted to pay, but they ended up signing what Merkel put on the table. There are two things that worry me most: on the one hand, if we don't spend with responsibility, it's going to be a problem for us; and on the other hand, it's going to be very serious for any attempt at fiscal union in the future. If these loans and transfers are a failure, an operation such as that which we are now proposing on recovery from Brussels will never again be considered in Europe. 

If there is a failure in the negotiation, it will mean a before and an after for the European project... 

Absolutely. It would be terminal for Europe, it would definitely break the trust. And that is why I think we should be happy with some conditionality and also accept that there should be inspections and all the necessary expenditure control, as ultimately it is in our interest as well as in Europe's interest.  

On Friday, the President of the European Council, Charles Michel, made a proposal that is in line with that of the "tight-fisted" countries of the North. What is your vision? 

Michel's proposal is causing concern in the European Parliament. And we are concerned about the trend and the direction in which it is going: it is the fact that all expenditure on innovation and the future of the European budget is going to be replaced by the reconstruction fund, that is to say, the European budget is going to be left only for the cohesion and agricultural items, and the reconstruction fund is going to be added with more money than there is at the moment. Since the reconstruction fund is going to disappear in 3-4 years, however, the budget is going to be crippled. The "tight-fisted" countries seem to be pushing in a very dangerous direction for Europe, to cut permanent expenditure in exchange for increasing provisional expenditure now. A government that is in power for 3-4 years may end up being interested, but Europe is being shaken down, for this means that the budget in 5-6-7 years' time will be very small.

Do these most reluctant countries, such as Sweden, Austria, the Netherlands... realise that they, also, risk the functioning of the single market?  

I think they are. I think they know that Europe's entire future is at stake and that, therefore, the discussion is open, because otherwise we would not even be talking. When, at the height of the coronavirus crisis, anti-European sentiment began to emerge in Spain and Italy because of Europe's inaction, there was a reaction to the fear that the European project would collapse, led by Merkel which is unacceptable for everyone. 

The crisis of 2008, where Europe also reacted late and badly, may have set a precedent... 

Absolutely, it's been a key precedent. There has been awareness that this could not happen again and the truth is that we have now done more in three months than it was done between 2008 and 2015, without any doubt. The lesson has been learned and we have responded quickly. Also, and we have been able to take very important steps forward, starting with the resolution adopted by Parliament calling for this type of reconstruction programme. So I hope that, as of this weekend, the countries will agree at the European Council to get the fund working.

Are you optimistic? Will there be an agreement because the future of the EU depends on it? 

There are reasons to be optimistic. In these three months there has been more done in terms of institutional developments than in the last 10 or even 15 years. If this agreement is reached, it will serve to make progress in other areas.  

Do you also believe that there will be a return to multilateralism, and what role do China and the United States play in the process? 

For me, that is less possible and it worries me most. The situation in China is structurally more complicated, regardless of who is leading the United States, and I do not think the situation would change so much with another president. China is in an almost abusive mode: pushing too hard and giving too little. So, there will be no situation in which the institutions will be the ones to rule over trade, but two main blocks, Washington and Beijing, which will be fighting for control, with Europe in the middle. All of this leads, in the end, to a great deal of tension and I sincerely believe that there are fewer possibilities for progress. We are going to face a totally different world regardless of whether or not Donald Trump wins the November elections.